CO-OP 0302 -- The Animated Series -- Demon's Souls, Eufloria, Canabalt, Geared, Mr. Bounce
matt chandronaitYes, this is the premiere of CO-OP: The Animated Series! Except it isn’t. Well, it sort of is … you’ll see. More after the show:
Ray Barnholt from 1UP.com reviewed Demon’s Souls for that site and gave it an “A.” Kat Bailey, an industry freelance writer also thinks of the game as one of her “best purchases this year.” Ryan and I hate it. We attempt to clear up some of the mystery as to why this game appeals greatly to some and causes others to toss it aside after repeated fits of rage. Which side are you on? Does the antiquated game design frustrate the hell out of you? Enough to rage-quit like me? Or are you a masochist who enjoys floundering through bad game design out of some misguided sense of “accomplishment?” Yeah, okay, I’m totally biased and that last sentence is completely unfair, but that’s why we made sure to bring in people that are as much in love with this game as I am bothered by it. Demon’s Souls is the game most-requested by our fans in the history of CO-OP so we had to deliver!
Formerly known as Dyson, the indie darling Eufloria was given some quality play-time by me and it definitely lives up to the hype. The simplified RTS mechanics go a long way to making the graphical gem a playable wonder and were it not for the lack of multiplayer could easily be a must-have for any fan of the genre, even in such a crowded holiday season.
It’s been a while since we got a chance to cover gaming on the iPhone and we figured it would serve you better if we could offer up more than just a single title for your consideration. Within: the simplistic but addictive Canabalt, the groovy and though-provoking puzzler Geared, and a new take on a classic gaming form with Mr. Bounce. Bon appetit!
If you like what we do and have a little spare change, click that donate button over to the right. If you don’t have any spare change, donate a comment! We love hearing from y’all :)
Reader Comments (53)
Why no Brutal Legend?
@Sanchez ... Brütal Legend sponsored our trip to E3. It was too much money directly applied to CO-OP and to our business for us to feel comfortable covering the game objectively. Similar reason as to why we're not covering Forza 3... even though we genuinely love the game, we can't cover it on the show as we've done a lot of promotional contract work for them.
Great episode guys, and one of my top 3 favorites. I love the Demon's Souls coverage and had a hunch on your overall thoughts about it. Level 1-1's blue and red eye knight (take the left side spiral staircase filled with TnT barrels and torch weilding undead to the top) are your best bet to "grind" once you defeat the Phalanx, giving 2300 combined SP. 3-4 returns to them should help, most definately. Keep the great shows coming.
Matt - I want to see you in a Tank costume right f'n now. It would be AWESOME.
I would like to thank you guys for saving me some money, before watching your segment on Demon's Souls I was super excited for it. But it looks really frustrating, even Ray Barnholt who gave the game a great review score seemed to be a bit down on it at times.
I do think the idea of leaving messages, seeing friend’s characters and where they died in your game world is very interesting. It allows you to interact with other players, but still lets you create your own game experience. These features would have been great in Fable 2.
Regards
Al
I'm happy that you guys finally discussed demons souls but disappointed that you didn't seem to see what makes it so great. Like the girl said, you
die because it was your fault not the games. I don't know about everyone else but I like actually having a challenging game.
Great show again Area5, You continue to express your show in new and exciting ways!
Next week: Ratchet and Clank Future: A Crack in Time, DJ Hero, and Borderlands.
That would be awesome!!!
Hey Matt,
To select all seedlings in Eufloria, just use the left mouse button to click+drag to another asteroid. You can also quickly select less than all of them by left-clicking, then dragging partly into the asteroids "area of effect" which will allow you to select only part of the seedlings on that particular asteroid. Also, you can select certain types of seedlings by double-clicking, then selecting the icon of the type of seedlings you want (Energy, Speed, Strength) and left-click-dragging. I hope that makes sense. Took me a little while to figure that out too. I was happy to see you guys cover the game. I, too, made an impulse buy based on the screen shots and I've been quite happy. Love the show!
@BG-COOP ... what, the "animated" version wasn't good enough?
@Al ... yup, Demon's Souls is for a very particular kind of gamer, and like Ryan said, you probably know if you're that type. And yeah, I agree re:Fable 2. I think all developers should look at Demon's Souls for some excellent examples for alternative ways to integrate online features into their games. Super cool.
@Joe ... it's not the challenge that was the proble, Joe, it was the game design itself, for me at least. There's no reason people out there can't love something that I don't! That's why we brought Kat and Ray on--it wasn't fair just to have myself and Ryan discussing the game when we're clearly not the kind of audience that game is meant for. If you love it, great! More power to you :)
@novato ... Do you somehow have access to our internal calendar?? ;p
@Justin ... Goddamnit! I KNEW there had to be a way to do it! I just couldn't for the life of me figure it out :)... the double-clicking thing I did figure out, but it usually seemed like more trouble than it was worth. And yeah, definitely one of those games that lives up to its visuals.
Have it downloading. I still watch it at the weekends. Same time the 1UP show arrived at. :)
The last two episodes have been great, the best in a while. But I can see where they could miss some viewers who were looking for a XBox title. I know it's tough but I would really like to each episode to have at least two titles from the big three home consoles, and at least two games from iPhone, PSP, DS, and PC. I play PS3, PSP, iPhone and PC games but I have still felt that past episodes had little that interested me. And put some swag up yo!
Hey,
Really great episode. I bought Gears for my iPhone today. Nice pick - especially for 99c!
But I most want to comment on Demon's Souls. I think its just awesome how you guys gave a balanced and realistic viewpoint on this game. I bought this game after reading the extremely high scores and discovered the same thing that a few of you guys did - its not for me.
The grinding and punishment just isn't fun anymore. I was talking to a friend about it, and seriously I think there is less grinding involved in Final Fantasy 1 for NES than Demon's Souls - and that's truly saying something!
I had the same thought as Ryan - what is outstanding about this game? Not the combat, not the story, not the levels. The only thing that seems outstanding is the dedication to punishing the gamer - and a disrespect for a gamer's time.
What I really wonder is if those who supposedly enjoy this game are attempting to show their 'hardcore gamer cred' or genuinely get some kind of strange satisfaction out of it?
The worst bit about it you guys didn't actually mention. There is NO WAY TO PAUSE. Unnacceptable. If I get an important phone call, and then die in an awful area, leaving my corpse rotting with all my soul collection, that's just pure BS. No fun at all.
Anyway, once again. Awesome episode. You guys do amazing work - keep it up!
Waiting for my November 15th bonus so I can donate :)
lol wait a sec what happen to Jay in the second animated short i was expecting you guys to close on a "wait...wheres fresh?"
Fresh was the one with the hook, giving the orders. :)
Hey Ryan! How did the auction go? :)
A game like Demon's Souls would have no sympathy from me... I left the RPG genre a long time ago (curse you FF12!!!)
I like Canabalt's design, it seemed to tell a story of its own: one man vs the end of the world! The art style really adds to the game too. I've only played it 2-3 times online, but that's because I knew I would be addicted to it for a long time and wouldn't be able to stop myself. Now seems like the perfect time to play it though!
As for the "animated scenes", you should apply those to the ads, it'd add more cool :D
Finally, one word: Tekken 6?
Just as a little correction/note to Matt, you can actually select seedlings all together in Eufloria. If you hold LMB down on an asteroid and drag it out, you can send off a certain amount depending on how far out you drag the mouse.
Other than that, keep up the great work. I've come to realize through the 1up Show/Co-op that gaming culture deserves much more exposure than just sensational news outlets and podcasts (not that there's anything wrong with the latter).
Matt, I told Jason on Facebook that I might have lied at PAX. This episode could top the Jason Show... unless, there is a Jason Show 2 in the near future... *hint hint* ;)
Can we get more penis like objects in the animated sections please? Love the show, but working penis's into animated sections is old an played out. Leave it out next time please. It's not 'clever' anymore.
"I had the same thought as Ryan - what is outstanding about this game? Not the combat, not the story, not the levels. The only thing that seems outstanding is the dedication to punishing the gamer - and a disrespect for a gamer's time."
The combat is outstanding - no other game has done actual, realistic weapon physics, that make weapon choice more than a simple "what does more 'damage'". And it's entirely skill based.
The levels, or rather, the atmosphere is also unique. There are no other games that do oppressive, brooding evil nearly as well - and the subtler parts of the atmosphere range from creepy (3-1 among other) to unbelievable in scope (3-2) to truly disgusting (the end of 5).
Yes the game punishes the player - but only for making mistakes. It's never unfair and when you die it's because you messed up, not because the game just cheated.
@mats effect ... heh, not surprised :) -- I think we'd like to release on Fridays, actually, but Tuesday and Wednesdays are the highest-trafficked Internet days so we have to do it then.
@jason ... a worthy notion and one we'd like to adhere to! Unfortunately we only have a staff of six people and only three slots, so it really does have to be based off what we're playing and/or what we can get guests for. I agree, though, that it would be nice to give every platform its due every week.
@BigSka ... Ryan lost that auction he was rushing out for, but he won another one a bit later that day.
@Gyfal ... yup! A bunch of people told me that after the show went out. I KNEW there had to be a way to do it, I just couldn't figure it out for the life of me. Bizarre/hilarious that such a simple mechanic escaped me :). And, of course, thank you for the kind words! We're an entertainment medium as well as an art form so there's certainly room for all varieties of coverage and culture surrounding it. I think we've found a pretty good niche for us, though :)
@Eric S ... How about a "Ryan Look-a-Like" show? ;)
@JimmyHat ... but but but... it was ROBOT Penis! That overcomes all previous inclusions of penis-like objects ever!
@DK ... I disagree about the combat being outstanding for various reasons, but that's not really the point of the DS piece. I think the gist we were trying to get across is that it's a game of particular appeal and that it's enormously interesting because it's completely unapologetic about it! I love that it's out there even though I hated playing it because it's so true to what it's trying to do.
@Matt I think too many faces would melt at how rad that would be.
Not sure if this is how twitter lists work but if you are in the beta for them: http://twitter.com/matseffect/area-5
Thanks for the Demon's Souls coverage. I saw it at a trade show in September and had no clue what was going on. Loving Atlus, I almost bough it, but watching your discussion on it I am glad I didn't.
About Demon's Souls, please don't say you're glad you haven't bought the game even though you haven't played it. The game is not one of the top 10 best scored games for no reason. To be honest with you I started the game, played 2 hours and was ready to resell it. Why because i tried to play the game with my own rules. The biggest one being "dying is wrong" well no it's not in Demon's Souls. Dying is just part of the game. This game has become the most satisfying game I've played this year, This game is outstanding design that you can only see if you play the way it's meant to be played. All the peeps struggling with it are trying top play it like they're playing Oblivion. Every game has a tutorial, some of them are just not that obvious, Demon's Souls is one them.
Great ending.
I will let myself think that I was one of the persons you saw filling twitter with my Canabalt runs. It got a bit easier when I realized it helps to hit boxes every now and then, but I still haven't quite broke 10,000.
Also, when is Rob going to get some screen time? Haven't seen much of him lately.
I realize Demon's Souls can be super frustrating, and it was for me at points, but I still love it. There's several things you have to realize along the way in order to really enjoy it, I think.
-When you die, you still keep the items that give you souls (Unknown Soldier's Soul, etc), so even if you can't get back to your bloodstain, you don't lose all the souls you collected.
-If you're in the Nexus and you have enough souls to buy something/upgrade, SPEND THEM. Stockpiling souls is just a bad idea.
-If you keep dying in the same place, your probably aren't supposed to go there, yet. There are definitely places that are open from the beginning that you don't need to and probably shouldn't go in order to 'complete' the level.
-Most importantly, don't be scared to try new tactics, even if it means you get yourself killed. Frequently you'll discover that 'that cheap enemy' is really not that hard if you use the right tactics. For example, those Cthulu looking guys in the Tower of Latria are a bitch if you don't sneak up behind them and/or light them up with fire magic. Usually they'll be dead before they can turn around. If you feel like you need to grind to beat an enemy, you probably aren't exploiting their weaknesses.
There's more, I'm sure, but those are the main things I try to keep in mind. If the game were easier, it wouldn't be as fun to conquer it. There's some patience required, but not of the "grind out this one enemy hours on end for xp" variety. I found playing the game as a thief and trying to get parries/backstabs in open combat more difficult than it was worth and it'd be a shame if you guys missed this game just because you unwittingly put yourselves in a worse case scenario.
Another good episode but I am a bit amazed by you all didn't have more excitement for Demon's Souls. It is easy one of my favorite games this year. I don't have trouble much through the game. I noticed early on that upgraded weapons helped earlier more than leveling up. It is hard but I appreciate it and I am one who has had a hard time to devote too much time to rpgs but this one that always demands my attention. Anyway, good show and look forward to the next.
@Keegs79
Yeah I agree I really thought I knew these guys but I guess I don't. I really pictured them raving about the game. I also think they went in with the
wrong mindset. I don't know you guys viewed this game all wrong.
Hey guys love the show except can you guys stop or slow down on the iphone games??? Most gamers don't give a shit. Review games.
Most gamers probably don't give a shit. However, I do like seeing what's happening on different platforms. I find their Iphone segments interesting and I don't even OWN an Iphone. I just like seeing what developers are doing different on ALL gaming platforms.
Everyone's difficulty threshold is different, everyone plays different and at the same time, I guess not everyone enjoys a challenge.
Personally, I don't think Demon's Souls is masochistically difficult. The first 'stage' I only died once (I fell off the stage lunging my mace at an enemy--oops!), though I went into this game knowing full well that it was going to be difficult, so I proceeded cautiously making sure I was watching every attack from the enemies and looking at the blood stains to give me an idea of whats ahead. The player hints were more often then not, very useful for finding useful items and alerting me to hidden enemies.
I guess I should've dropped by here to share my thoughts earlier, as it seems others have touched the bases I was aiming for already.
Demon's Souls isn't other RPGs. I'm a little shocked that I heard any mention of "grinding." Sure, there's a vocabulary of gameplay that we gamers pick up after years of solving game tapes, but that doesn't mean the "rules" of every genre will apply to every game within. You don't grind in "roguelikes." That seemed to be the division in opinions on Demon's Souls: players familiar with the descendants of Rogue, and those who seemed less familiar.
It's about beating the dungeons; beating the bosses. In a game with a level cap of 700something, grinding out that next level is surely not the point. Also, when you're picking up items that convert to experience/currency and your pockets don't rupture upon death, dying isn't the end, it's just another step in the process.
Some games are different games.
Hey Matt et al
Wow, those animated segments were great. I haven't really felt like writing in until this episode. I think the problem might be that the animated segments were TOO good.
And I'm pretty much certain that Matt is doing "Warpath" from Transformers.
Jesus christ you guys suck at games. Demon's Souls is note that hard. Yeah. it's extremely punishing, but like Kat said, when you die, it's because you fucked up and did something wrong. Yeah, the game does have a few cheap deaths, where some asshole with a giant sword will be waiting right behind a corner, but these are extremely few and far between. Hell, the hardest and most dangerous enemies (red eyed knight, dragons, etc), you're given full views of before you come close to facing off with them, and you're given plenty of chances not to.
The fact that Matt, who clearly sucks at the game, and Ryan, who played it for three goddamn hours and continued to bitch about not understanding what was so great about, was straight up bad journalism. You don't get to play three hours of a forty plus hour game and whine about not understanding it. There's a reason that the games been getting amazing coverage from nearly every publication covering it, and it's because they actually have to play the game in order to review it.
My grip isn't with your opinions, I honestly don't care whether you like the game or not. I can perfectly understand not liking it, but when your complaint is that it's too hard when it's not, and you have someone discussing it when they really didn't play it, there's an issue.
@ Zombie Nixon
Matt and Ryan's criticisms were valid. Like they said, it takes a different kind of gamer to play this game. Demon's Souls has a very stiff learning curve. Even the developers say that it isn't a fun game. Some people will agree with the Area 5 guys in not wanting to play this game. Area 5 is different in the way they do their "reviews". There are no arbitrary scores and real gamers talk about the game. If I find a game to be a punch in the balls do i need to finish the game in order to say I don't like it? With that said... I fucking love this game.
Demon's Souls really seems like one of those games that can be likened to climbing Mt. Everest. Sure, it'll kill you without mercy or hesitation, but the reward for having conquered it is immeasurable.
to start off i want to say i don't often post comments here... but, i have watched every episode.
THANK YOU for covering demon's souls.. i feel it's the best game i've played this year. and it's not because the combat is perfect (it is though.) it's not because the online is incredibley refreshing. it's because the the whole experience is immersive, and amazingly horrific. from the way the levels are designed to the music to the "brutal difficulty", this game really sets a mood. You aren't supposed to be able to beat the tutorial, and that says alot about this game. the whole point is to be immersed in this dreadful world. and if you find it too difficult, it's because you are doing it wrong, and no amount of grinding is going to help that. ( oh wow i just leveled up 4 times now i do 113 damage instead of 105... to any enemin with 150 hit points.... see it doesn't matter) grinding in this game is kind of stupid anyway as the whole experience is kind of tied to the idea of risk reward. if you die in a level then make it back to your blood stain you now have twice as many souls as you did before you died so then you have to decide whether or not to press onward or go level up and try again. and if you really feel that leveling up is what you need to get through an area, you should be assisting other players (blue eye stone) you gain souls, and can't lose them. but that's how this game is... if you are frustrated, it's BECAUSE you don't understand... and that's the point. the whole game IS the puzzle. if you don't like the combat try different weapons.. they all work differently and are more or less effective against different enemies, which makes certain areas more or less difficult for different characters. but, YOU have to figure it out.. and that's why it's really hard to approach this as an RPG. it just doesn't work that way. YOU have to get better at playing it more than your characters stats need to improve. AND that's what's amazing about this game!
blah blah blah sorry for the rant.
also a pretty serious correction here:
DYING DOES NOT MAKE THE GAME HARDER!
dying while in body form changes the world tendency towards black, which is why when you're in body form you should either kill yourself in the nexus(i know that's fucked up, but that's how this world is... there are a set of rules, and you have to figure out what they are and how to get around them..) or when you are in body form you can summon others to help you which should make it incredibly easy, but if you screw up it will punish you... risk reward. ( is it worth it to have more health, an extra ring, and the chance to get help from friends when you could make the area more difficult...)
Sorry, but it really bothers me that you implied that the game was poorly decide, because you misunderstand how it works. demon's souls is probably the best designed game i've ever played, it's just not everyday you play a game that actually has consequences. it is possible to fuck your worlds up to the point thaat YOU can't get through them.
another rant:
GAMES AS ART
demon's souls succeeds in creating a complete world, and through the art, story, combat, and AMAZING sound design. immerses the player in it's world. it does this in alot of clever ways. for example there aren't maps of the levels so you have to memorize them, which is a good thing because you need to remember not only the path, but what enemies are on that path and how to kill them. this puts alot of the game in your head, the bloodstains of other players don't just help you, they serve as a reminder that every single part of the game is designed to kill you. and when it does you'll be angry, and if you let that affect the way you play, if you become impatient YOU WILL DIE over and over and over again. that is the game, you have keep a clear tactical thinking head even when you're incredible frustrated with the game and your own shortcomings in playing. when your thinking about how to get back to your bloodstan through an intentionally convoluted path and you forgot where an enemy was, and they get you with a sneak attack that takes most of your life. your thinking aboutdesperately rolling backwards eating some moongrass and how you can regain control of the situation. you know what you aren't thinking about? sitting on a couch holding a controller.and when instead of doing what you intended you side roll off a cliff and die and lose thousands of souls you feel angry and hopeless. so you go back to the nexus, and there's an npc their that has given up on even trying. really think about that. from the beginning of the game there is an npc character that tried to do what you're doing, failed, and gave up. they are now spending an eternity sitting on some steps feeling hopeless. at this point if you do give up, then the game has won, and when was the last time a game BEAT you?
i honestly think thats an impressive feat to design a winnable game, that convinces you that you can't win.
You guys should try and review Eliminate for the iPhone/ iPod touch. right now it available on the canadian app store. It's a free FPS with interesting dlc options.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
this
get rid of the fcuking iphone games or dedicate I couple of minutes to it.
I remember first hearing about Trine on one of the CO-OP episodes a while back but haven't gotten around to buying it yet. Does anyone have any input on which version to get, PC or PS3?
@jason
there are demos for both the pc and ps3 version of Trine. You have to look in the european playstation store to get the ps3 demo though.
Hey guys, I put up the previous video(I will put up all the future episodes from now on) on N4G.com. It's currently under the pending news channel. Approve it so it can hit the front page. That will really get the exposure they need.
The "share article" feature is blocked by the video in all of your posts. Can you guys fix it? Maybe put it in a different location.
Amazing job guys! I have been watching since 1up. Good luck with everything!!!
WOOOHOOO CO-OP!!!! YEAAA!!!!!!! ROBOT DICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i love matt, ryan, and jason.
</spam>
@Zombie Nixon
That was a great comment. I totally agree with you. I think these guys know there stuff but this was way off the mark and i wouldn't be surprised that those that are defending the cast are doing so for the admiration of them because I seriously doubt that many people that think postively on their comments about Demon's Souls actually played the game or much of it.
@Joe
Thanks. I like them but they hit a huge wall on this one
Oh and I agree with some people, lose the iphone games. I am all things video games but I have a limit and that was anything with cellphones.
@Keegs
Damn right - who would play a ton of hours in a game they don't enjoy? Game reviewers maybe but other than that, its not normal. I played about 12 hours before selling mine, IMO thats a very fair chance. By definition, those who have sank 30-40+ hours into it will LOVE it. Isn't that only natural? I have a limited amount of time for gaming, so I try to spend that on enjoyable games.
@Zombie Nixon
Its extremely arrogant to assume because people don't like a difficult game, they suck at it. I didn't die frequently... But I did not enjoy the experience. Why is that so hard to accept?
@Area.5 guys
The iPhone reviews are great and useful, but maybe it is best to limit them to 1 per episode, max.
@Keegs79
"...I seriously doubt that many people that think postively on their comments about Demon's Souls actually played the game or much of it."
and you know this because...?
The main page shows diggs at 327 and when I click through it's showing 29?
Anyway, nicely done guys. I appreciate the balanced review of Demon's Souls, I don't think it would be for me, but I've a friend with a birthday coming up that will love it. Seems like you've stirred up quite the debate here.