CO-OP Live 0104 -- Heavy Rain, Just Cause 2, WarioWare D.I.Y., Sin & Punishment: Star Successor, and more!
matt chandronaitYes, the ApocalyPS3 has come and gone (we hope), but we couldn’t just let it go without poking a little fun. If you have a TS3 (that’s not a typo) like we do, hopefully you didn’t suffer the same fate. More after the show:
A leap forward in interactive entertainment, Heavy Rain should be on everyone’s list of paradigm-shifting moments for the medium. While some question whether or not it’s really a “game,” Ryan and I are pretty much in agreement as to why the game’s release deserves to be heralded as an important event for gamers everywhere. Unfortunately marred by some mediocre voice acting, the surrounding message to this talk is: play this. Play this game and then make everyone you know play it, gamer or not.
Cesar and I got some serious hands-on fun-time with Just Cause 2 and like most people came away with that Red Faction vibe. It’s open world, kitchy mayhem and while we thought the early introductions of the game in video form looked cool, we’re now really eager to get our hands on the final game and go on a path of grapple-wielding destruction.
Big game companies and publishers every so often like to throw a “media day” where they invite the gaming press, feed them lots of free stuff and in return get a bunch of glowing previews about their upcoming period of new offerings. Nintendo’s can sometimes be marred with fewer offerings, but this one suffers no such indignity. With almost every title on hand having a strong showing, this looks like it may be a very good year to own a Wii and a DS (or a DS Lite, or DSi, or DSi XL, or… sheesh, just how many of those things ARE there??). We go into WarioWare D.I.Y. (gaming industry in a box), Sin and Punishment: Star Successor (Treasure has done it again), a couple, sweet Art Style games that are hitting WiiWare and the impulsively funny Photo Dojo.
Reader Comments (31)
Good luck Jay Fresh at Visceral Games, I will be buying Dead Space 2 just to show my support....or, well, maybe also cause it hopefully will be a good game....naah, I'll stick to the first reason! You'll definitely be missed on Co-op!
Great episode (once again) guys!
Nice show but I'm very sad that Jay is gone :I
What will happened if someone else leaves besides Jay? End of co-op? I don't see the show without Matt or Ryan
Like the guy can't do both "jobs" at once?
ffs you girls have been in Cali too long it's making you soft...get some spine!
"Took of Death"!
that fighting game was the greatest thing I've ever seen.
the commercials are getting worse not better...I thought we talked about this...
fuck what's wrong with my toaster?
Great show guys! Best of luck to Jay. Keep fighting the good fight!
Just pre-ordered a shirt! :D Keep up the good work guys. Enjoy every minute.
Best wishes J-Fresh!
Regarding Heavy Rain:
Like Deadspace, Mirror's Edge or Brutal Legends, many critics are over-praising this product and like those titles, it will be a commercial flop.
I think critics play so -many- games and so many similar titles (shooters, etc..) that when something slightly different comes along it's perceived as being greater than it actually is. Most of the 200+ million gamers out there can only afford to buy a couple of games and so the prospect of spending hours doing boring taskslike setting the table or drinking coffee slowly just isn't appealing at $60 or $70.
Heavy Rain is an interesting experiment, but it isn't a game. A direct descendant of the old 'CinemaWare' titles that were releases on the early B&W Macs in the 80's, it fails on many levels: We have seen better character models/acting/motion capture in Heavenly Sword, more meaningful decisions in Fallout 3 or Mass Effect, more exciting driving against traffic in Burnout, etc.
Too often I felt like I was watching a cut scene and where the developer didn't know what I should be doing and so purposely put throw away actions that had no impact. (there's something wrong with the mechanics design when you have less control handling a gun than doing your boss' tie.)
The only good things about Heavy Rain are the soundtrack and parts of the story. The dialogue, on the otehr hand, is just awful and amateurish. You can tell how bad the script is when the journalist girl keeps saying "Ethan" in every one of her sentences (nobody talks like that).
When GTA3 was released on the PS2 it was an eye opener and offered new gameplay and it had an enormous influence on games that came after it. Heavy Rain will not create a revolution in games. If anything, developers might pick up on placing Quick Time Event icons in more appropriate locations, but nothing else in the game shines.
It is very much like experimental films: an acquired taste that doesn't make it great cinema. Heavy Rain is an interesting experiment, but nobody should recommend it as a game.
Don't worry about Jay's replacement guys. I will step up to the plate and do the job. My Credentials? Here I am at E3 2006 doing my thing: http://orlyate3.ytmnd.com/ .
BTW I am the guy in the O RLY shirt.
P.S. I ordered a co-op shirt, Co-op Forever, hell my last name is Co-oper
@Matt
What the hell is going on at the area5 studios!!!???
First Rob, now Jay! You're starting to sound like Infinity Ward!
Is this the end of co-op? I really hope you guys get your act together.
Also, great episode by the way, I've been looking forward to playing my wii and ds again.
If you're looking for another person to join the show.....I''m close by :)
From playing the Demo of Heavy Rain, I have to say the controls did feel awkward. I do like Heavy Rains move into adult storytelling and themes, as the average gamer gets older there is an opportunity for developers to tackle sex, love and violence in a more mature manner.
The footage of Just Cause 2 looks a lot of fun. The first game did not hold my interest and it gave the impression it was developed with the original Xbox in mind. But with so many big games coming out over the next few months, JC2 may struggle to find a big audience.
Regards
Al
Not diggin the new format....best parts are the pre recorded reviews, like old school....sorry, still watch every week though!!!!!
@Peter Lount ... Wow, a lot to digest there! Thanks, man, for taking the time to dig into it. Hopefully my response will be as considered ... I agree that Heavy Rain probably won't sell well, but "over-praising" is inaccurate, here. I agree about the voice acting being less than stellar (to put it kindly), but attempting to define "game" by defining Heavy Rain as not being one isn't a course for successful argument. It's interactive and there is direct control by the player. Is there any better place to have this kind of experience than with controller in hand? While it's level of direct control may not satisfy your definition, the industry isn't and shouldn't be defined so narrowly. In fact, where the real revolution comes in with Heavy Rain is that it's the most accessible game to the non-gamer since point-and-click adventure games (Myst) or Wii motion controls. It's a tragedy that the game probably won't sell well because if it had the full might of Sony's marketing muscle behind it, it could be a break out hit. The crime drama is a universally appealing narrative and the voice acting is just-barely-passable enough that most people would forgive it. More importantly, this game touches on a kind of collaborative storytelling that I hope other developers and perhaps even filmmakers pick up on and expand upon. I wouldn't exactly call it the creation of a new genre of gaming, but I would call it a style of gameplay that has enormous potential if storytellers pick up on it. No one is saying that it's the best way to make a game or that it's the most appropriate for every experience--only that it deserves to be added into the toolbox of ideas developers have to choose from when crafting their experience. Being that it is a particularly excellent example of a not-commonly-used tool is important as it enables the exploration of all kinds of gaming experiences heretofore shied away from. Jenova Chen and Kelly Santiago of thatgamecompany always talk about their creations as exploring "the rest of the bookstore" emotionally. Their games are great examples of developing new gameplay that seeks emotional ground seldom explored in gaming. Heavy Rain's has a style of interactivity that could allow the "video game" to become a common medium for the exploration of all those stories and feelings that we all know are too uncommon in gaming. It's a tragedy that this game might not sell well unless there is enough word of mouth to build in a long tail as when I look at the shelves in stores and see the games surrounding Heavy Rain, it stands alone in what it's trying to do. You're very right to caution critics not to simply praise something because it's new and shiny, but I don't think that's the issue here. Heavy Rain is the kind of mature experience that the medium should be encouraged to explore no matter what kind of interactive tools are being implemented. That alone is laudable. Add to that the method of this game's implementation and its enormous potential for an incredible variety of experiences and it's small wonder to me that this game is garnering such high praise.
@Matt Co-oper ... You, sir, are an officer and a gentleman! Though I'm not sure if you want to step into the shoes of a TRAITOR TO NATION AND FLAG!! (Just kidding, Fresh ;p )
@novato ... Nope. If this were Activision and JayFresh was Infinity Ward we'd be swimming in cash and would have expelled Fresh in an effort to keep the money for ourselves. Huh... that suddenly doesn't sound so bad.
@Al ... Yeah, JC2 was a big surprise for Cesar an I! We thought it would be fun based off the video stuff we'd seen, but then when we got to play it we were really enthralled by the experience.
@TS ... I'm glad you're sticking with us, TS! We'll get better and things will get smoother. This is still very new to us, so there's a lot to get right!
I'm currently going to school for an Animation Degree, and I always value your guys' take on the cinematic presentation in games. Like you guys, I was a big, big fan of Indigo Prophecy/Fahrenheit, so needless to say I'll be spinning this one for a good many hours...(And probably multiple times as well, since my Mass Effect 2 profile has three characters on it; that's the kind of gamer I am!)
I'm always in class when you're show's on! Maybe next semester I'll get lucky and won't have it conflicted...or buy a laptop, I suppose.
Matt, excellent defense of Heavy Rain. I couldn't agree more - this is unlike any game I've ever played. I don't see why an actually emotionally engaging game could be considered a "hard sell". It's worth the $60 admission price. I bought it day 1 to support interactive drama. Would love to see more of these games in the future.
clip your mics higher or stop hitting them
@Matt nice come back Matt!
@matt
I really respect your opinion. I would however simply point out that the "incredible variety of experiences" you mentioned isn't really there. Many interactive scenes in Heavy Rain end up resulting in the exact same outcome no matter what you do. For example, no matter what approach you take with the psychiatrist (convince, reason, etc...) he will always ignore you and talk to your partner triggering a fight. Same goes with the profiling scene: No matter what you pick it will always end up with the other detective getting up in his chain and swearing at you and your boos intervening: Your choices have zero impact and the experience is the same.
To me, Heavy Rain does little more than the old CD-Interactive games like "Johnny Mnemonic" or "psychic Detective" where the branching tended to be a binary choice. If heavy Rain had variety, I should of been able to get Shelby killed in the convenient store and branch off into a completely different path altogether. But you can't. Shadow of memories had better multiple endings.
I still think Fallout gave us a greater variety of experiences and Mass Effect 2 did a better job at storytelling, cinematic presentation and immersion. Maybe it's a cultural thing, the french press over here have all canned the game.
You're right about what you said about the crime/mystery genre. The millenium trilogy of books were a huge hit over here and I know a lot of people have been dying for a game in that style, I just don't think Heavy Rain does a very good job at it (particularly since it takes like 2 hours to get going and the story is full of holes and inconsistencies). Too bad for Quantic dream: it could of been a hit.
As always, respect, good wishes and applause for all the hard work you guys do every week.
Nice:) my brother already told me that, but there is way with using of essay papers i would do soon :)
Wonderful post... Very informational and educational as usual!
Acai Optimum
FINAL FANTASY XIII
FINAL FANTASY XIII
FINAL FANTASY XIII
FINAL FANTASY XIII
REVIEW IT!!!!(PLEASE)
Keep the faith brothers of fun. Sad to see Jay go, but one day Jay will have child, and that child will come back and take his father's rightful spot. Keep it going! Can't wait for when you all hit back.
Great show guys. Sad to see Jay go :(
Another great show!! Can't wait to get my hands on Heavy Rain. Sad to hear about Jay, but I guess it's for the greater good.
Those t-shirts look awesome. Is it me or is shipping to the UK is sooo expensive?? Good God I'm poor, guess that's what uni does to you!!
It's obvious that COOP is struggling financially. Rob's gone...Jay's gone...you guys are taking a week off to do other things...
I know this is sacreligious, but you guys should really consider charging some sort of fee per episode. Maybe $1 per episode and/or $30/year. I've been a fan of the show since the early 1up days, so I'm not saying I WANT to pay for the shows. But I'd rather do that then see COOP die.
You guys have a lot of eyeballs watching the show, but eyeballs aren't assets. And while selling T-shirts is a good idea, it's not going to bring that much to your bottom line.
You guys are unique...not just your personality and style, but also what you do. There are a number of radio shows on iTunes about video games, but not video shows. There are those X-Play guys, but the clips they put on there are obviously nothing like what you guys do. I know it's risky to start charging for the episodes, but you guys have a unique product and a justified reason for doing so. Sure, it's a risk...but it's better than letting COOP and Area 5 die.
I'm not sure what your contract is with Revision, but if you get your financial data and other numbers together (e.g. how many viewers you have, what your potential market is, etc.), you could put together an awesome presentation and go get some venture capital. It wouldn't be easy, but you already have a refined product that people enjoy, and you can prove how many people enjoy it. You just have to figure out how to monetize it. So if you go in with that and make a pitch on the new way you plan on making money (i.e. like charging per episode), I think you would have a real shot with someone who could see the potential. On a side note, if you do ever decide to charge, I would suggest going back to the old format as I believe those are more well done.
Anyways, these are just some scattered thoughts I had. I've been a fan for a long time, so I just want to give some advice that I had floating in my brain. I wish I could be an investor or help financially, but I'm just a poor PhD student, unfortunately :(
Contact me, if you want some deeper advice...
Hey guys, I love all the content of the show, still very relevant and interesting. But I really feel like the show is not as good as the formula you had before. Before, we felt like we we're one of the guys and the format was original, you guys were the only ones to do a video game show this way. Now it just feels like another video game show and it's sad. I hope you come back as your old format.
Jay Fresh - congrats! Pretty sad to see you go but it's one hell of an opportunity.
Can you please stop saying Quick Timer Events. It's just Time.
Loving the live stuff!.
Good, i am attracted by you words,thanks!You make some good points. I like your post,thank you for taking the time to post this.
6 rings Jordan
thanks a lot for sharing this one. Nice post! I'll bookmark this one for future reference in doing my freelance writing job.
Great show, always watch it online!
Heavy Rain is indeed a seminal moment in the history of this visual medium. Things just get better.
Chris C
Thanks for the video link. Lately I am into Wii and enjoy it a lot.